This is in response to Mr.Venkat's rant about Buddhism being 'Godless' etc. My considered opinion is that Sankara is completely mediocre - compared to the Buddha - and the few bits of his commentaries that make any sense at all are all plagiarised from Buddhist teachings. That the rest of the world considers Buddhism India's greatest gift to the world, and Sankara, if anybody has heard of him at all, as narrow and parochial proves my point. This is why Hindus, especially the 'upper' caste ones like Mr.Venkat, are so worked up. The world is quickly becoming aware of the seriousness of the crime of untouchability, and Indians, at least those with a conscience, are forsaking this religion in droves. There is not much time left as Toynbee predicts, for the 'upper' castes will rather go down with their leaking decrepit ship than dismantle their millenia old evil structures. --------------------This is the account of the encounter of Vacchagotta with the Buddha in the Majjhima Nikaya from T.R.V.Murti's "The Central Philosophy of Buddhism" (also see Warren's "Buddhism in Translations", Stcherbatsky's "The Conception of Buddhist Nirvana") when he poses the following questions - "... 1. Whether the world is eternal, or not, or both, or neither; 2. Whether the world is finite (in space), or infinite, or both, or neither; 3. Whether the Tathagata exists after death, or does not, or both, or neither; 4. Is the soul identical with the body or different from it? The Buddha in response remains silent. But Vacchagotta persists with "But has Gotama any theory of his own?" ... ... ... Buddha's solution of the problem: The formulation of the problem in the thesis-antithesis form is itself evidence of the awareness of the conflict in Reason. ... Speculative metaphysics provokes not only difference but also opposition; if one theorist says "yes" to a question, the other says "no" to the same. We know from the dialogues that Buddha was acquainted with the different speculations. The opening dialogue of the Digha Nikaya indicates the standpoint of Buddha. He characterises all speculations as "dogmatism" and consistently refuses to be drawn into the net. He is conscious of the interminable nature of conflict, and resolves it by rising to the higher standpoint of criticism. Dialectic was born. To Buddha, then, belongs the honour of having discovered the dialectic long before anything approximating to it was formulated in the West. We contend that Buddha reached a very high point of philosophic consciousness, and he did give an answer to the problem - the only answer possible for a critic of experience. ... On the opposition of the eternalist and nihilist views, Buddha erected another and more fundamental opposition - that between dogmatism and criticism which is the analytic or reflexive awareness of them as dogmatic theories. Criticism is deliverance of the human mind from all entanglements and passions. It is freedom itself. This is the true Madhyamika standpoint. ... .... ... So the Buddha finally tells Vachagotha: The Tathagata, O Vaccha, is FREE FROM ALL THEORIES. But this, Vaccha, does the Tathagata know - the nature of form, and how form arises and how form perishes. Therefore the Tathagata has attained deliverance and is free from attachment, inasmuch as all imaginings, or agitations, or false notions, concerning an Ego or anything pertaining to an Ego, have perished, have faded away, have ceased, have been given up and relinquished. ... ... To hold that the world is eternal or to hold that it is not, or to agree to any other of the propositions you adduce, Vaccha, is the jungle of theorising, the wilderness of theorising, the tangle of theorising, the bondage and shackles of theorising, attended by ill, distress, pertubation and fever; it conduces not to detachment, passionlessness, tranquility, peace, to knowledge and wisdom of Nirvana. This is the danger I percieve in these views which makes me discard them all. ... ... Buddha's position was not nihilism even in an implicit form. Neither Buddha nor any Buddhist system ever took this to be so. Buddha avers in the most explicit terms the existence of Nirvana as the implication of his doctrine and the spiritual discipline. Numerous are the passages in which Nirvana is spoken of in positive terms as a reality beyond all suffering and change, as unfading, still, undecaying, taintless, as peace, blissful. It is an island, the refuge and the goal. In a celebrated Udana passage Buddha says: There is a not-born, a not-become, a not-created, a not-formed. If there were not this not-born, this not-become, this not-created, this not-formed, there would not be the escape, the way out of this bondage. ... ------------------------------------ Replying to this email will send an e-mail to 8500+ members of Jharkhand Forum. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ About Jharkhand Forum @ http://www.jharkhand.org.in/about-jharkhand-forum Jharkhand Forum's Posting Norms http://jharkhand.org.in/posting_norms.htm Add your ORG Name in Directory - http://directory.jharkhand.org.in Join Jharkhand Network to Make New Friends @ http://JHARKHAND.ning.com Jharkhand Forum is run by Internet Volunteer Groups, if you wish to join it then follow this link http://volunteer.jharkhand.org.in +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ CHECK OUT JHARKHAND BLOG @ http://Jharkhand.org.in/blog MAKE FUNDING SUPPORT APPEAL HERE @ http://FUNDING-APPEAL.blogspot.com Get a FREE website for your NGO @ Http://Gift.Jharkhand.Org.In Check out previous messages @ http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand/messages +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Get yourname@jharkhandi.com by sending a blank mail to info@jharkhandi.com Yahoo! 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